log in | register | forums
Show:
Go:
Forums
Username:

Password:

User accounts
Register new account
Forgot password
Forum stats
List of members
Search the forums

Advanced search
Recent discussions
- Drag'N'Drop Autumn edition now available (News:)
- !DualHead puts 2 screens in one (News:)
- RISC OS London Show 2017 - Notes from the talks (News:6)
- November News (News:)
- !Organizer 2.28 reviewed (News:2)
- !OBrowse reviewed (News:10)
- Aemulor (Gen:16)
- DDE reaches release 28 and above (News:)
- Elesar quicks dispels stormy clouds (News:2)
- RISC OS London Show 2017 (News:)
Latest postings RSS Feeds
RSS 2.0 | 1.0 | 0.9
Atom 0.3
Misc RDF | CDF
Site Search
 
Article archives
The Icon Bar: Programming: How to write good code.
 
  How to write good code.
  Stoppers (14:02 7/1/2011)
  swirlythingy (14:40 9/1/2011)
    trevj (21:25 9/1/2011)
    bhtooefr (22:32 9/1/2011)
      jmb (23:05 9/1/2011)
      qUE (16:51 13/1/2011)
    qUE (16:57 13/1/2011)
      swirlythingy (19:47 13/1/2011)
        qUE (17:48 14/1/2011)
          swirlythingy (20:27 14/1/2011)
            qUE (01:54 15/1/2011)
              qUE (02:22 15/1/2011)
                swirlythingy (14:41 15/1/2011)
                  BrokenARM (20:13 28/11/2013)
        monkeyson2 (22:22 14/1/2011)
          swirlythingy (14:25 15/1/2011)
            monkeyson2 (01:46 16/1/2011)
 
Simon Willcocks Message #116186, posted by Stoppers at 14:02, 7/1/2011
Member
Posts: 278
http://xkcd.com/844/

I think I'm in the Android loop.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Martin Bazley Message #116193, posted by swirlythingy at 14:40, 9/1/2011, in reply to message #116186

Posts: 460
On a similar note, I had another look at the Phaethon binary the other week (to try and rip the original trackers), and I think I may have died a little when I encountered the following:

MOV Ra,#8
STR Rb,[Ra,#0]


Bloody hell. That should never have worked on RISC OS 2, let alone 4!




Client: There's no water coming out of my taps.

Plumber: Are you sure the stopcock isn't turned on?

Engineer: Maybe you forgot to pay your water bill.

Early 90s Archimedes games programmer: Pass me a pickaxe and we'll see if the main in the street is working.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Trevor Johnson Message #116197, posted by trevj at 21:25, 9/1/2011, in reply to message #116193
Member
Posts: 660
...Early 90s Archimedes games programmer: Pass me a pickaxe and we'll see if the main in the street is working.
Pedantic engineer: You might want to try this pneumatic drill - I'll switch on the compressor.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Eric Rucker Message #116199, posted by bhtooefr at 22:32, 9/1/2011, in reply to message #116193
Member
Posts: 336
Wait, is that doing what I think it's doing? Writing the contents of Rb just above the bottom of zero page?

shock
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
JMB Message #116201, posted by jmb at 23:05, 9/1/2011, in reply to message #116199
Member
Posts: 467
Wait, is that doing what I think it's doing? Writing the contents of Rb just above the bottom of zero page?
It's replacing the SWI vector. RISC OS < 3.5 didn't have an OS-provided mechanism (i.e. OS_ClaimProcessorVector) to claim the hardware vectors, so applications/modules had to do it manually by poking an instruction directly into the vector address.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
qUE Message #116208, posted by qUE at 16:51, 13/1/2011, in reply to message #116199
qUE

Posts: 168
Wait, is that doing what I think it's doing? Writing the contents of Rb just above the bottom of zero page?

shock
It's adding its own routine to the SWI vector, probably a copy protection thing. It's fine changing the vectors as long as you put the call to the old routine back when you return to the OS. Another common one is jacking the interrupt vectors so that you don't have ROS in the background taking up valuable processing.

Writing to this stuff is fine imho. Although I agree Acorn should have locked down that page with a MEMC permission.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
qUE Message #116209, posted by qUE at 16:57, 13/1/2011, in reply to message #116193
qUE

Posts: 168
If Phaethon was using Acorn Tracker format, which I suspect it was because of it's connection with Hugo F. that format starts with MUSX
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Martin Bazley Message #116211, posted by swirlythingy at 19:47, 13/1/2011, in reply to message #116209

Posts: 460
I'm aware of the MUSX thing, but the whole thing is encrypted several times over, including by the aforementioned hijack of the SWI vector. Which, incidentally, is not all right on a modern system which does protect zero page.

I've also tried poking around in the replacement binary supplied with the patch, which purports to make it work on new machines (but doesn't).

However, I've just had another go, and I'm happy to report a certain amount of progress. A certain amount, that is, which was sufficient to see the project to completion.

I think this is a sign from the productivity gods that it is high time for another release of the Music Ripper's Toolkit.

Trouble is, I'm not really happy with it in its current form. A lot of the programs leave a lot to be desired, however well they may work when you know what you're doing. I also want to shift away from a focus on RISC OS games and towards esoteric trackers in general (although all the RISC OS-specific material, like the decrypter I just wrote, will still be there).

The current plan is for a subsection of my current documents page, with download links at the end of each sub-page. It's likely to take a while, though, and will probably be shelved until I finish start another tracker-related project I want to use when it's done. (Which at least provides a good incentive.)
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
qUE Message #116214, posted by qUE at 17:48, 14/1/2011, in reply to message #116211
qUE

Posts: 168
I'm aware of the MUSX thing, but the whole thing is encrypted several times over, including by the aforementioned hijack of the SWI vector. Which, incidentally, is not all right on a modern system which does protect zero page.

I've also tried poking around in the replacement binary supplied with the patch, which purports to make it work on new machines (but doesn't).

However, I've just had another go, and I'm happy to report a certain amount of progress. A certain amount, that is, which was sufficient to see the project to completion.

I think this is a sign from the productivity gods that it is high time for another release of the Music Ripper's Toolkit.

Trouble is, I'm not really happy with it in its current form. A lot of the programs leave a lot to be desired, however well they may work when you know what you're doing. I also want to shift away from a focus on RISC OS games and towards esoteric trackers in general (although all the RISC OS-specific material, like the decrypter I just wrote, will still be there).

The current plan is for a subsection of my current documents page, with download links at the end of each sub-page. It's likely to take a while, though, and will probably be shelved until I finish start another tracker-related project I want to use when it's done. (Which at least provides a good incentive.)
Ah okey, you need to be careful circumventing copy protection though. There are still people involed with ROS software running around threatening people with legal action. Of course with pheathon it's been release for free on the scene anyway, so you're in the clear there.
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Martin Bazley Message #116215, posted by swirlythingy at 20:27, 14/1/2011, in reply to message #116214

Posts: 460
Encryption != copy protection.

(And, as far as I'm concerned, vast swathes of what was the RISC OS commercial arena have completely lost any remaining grasp on reality, but that's a whole other rant.)
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Phil Mellor Message #116216, posted by monkeyson2 at 22:22, 14/1/2011, in reply to message #116211
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
You're trying to rip the music from Phaethon?

The composer has already released it! smile

http://www.iconbar.com/articles/Phaethon_Soundtrack/index1212.html
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
qUE Message #116218, posted by qUE at 01:54, 15/1/2011, in reply to message #116215
qUE

Posts: 168
Encryption != copy protection.

(And, as far as I'm concerned, vast swathes of what was the RISC OS commercial arena have completely lost any remaining grasp on reality, but that's a whole other rant.)
I'm afraid it is, you've only got to look at a few EULAs that exist in the Windows market, it comes under reverse engineering software. Aparently it's illegal, but TBH like you say is it worth peoples time to persue you for the unlikely chance they're going to gain any money from you?, I personally doubt it. It's a chance you take, but if you get burnt by it producing software to automate the process then on your head be it.

[Edited by qUE at 01:56, 15/1/2011]
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
qUE Message #116220, posted by qUE at 02:22, 15/1/2011, in reply to message #116218
qUE

Posts: 168
Encryption != copy protection.

(And, as far as I'm concerned, vast swathes of what was the RISC OS commercial arena have completely lost any remaining grasp on reality, but that's a whole other rant.)
I'm afraid it is, you've only got to look at a few EULAs that exist in the Windows market, it comes under reverse engineering software. Aparently it's illegal, but TBH like you say is it worth peoples time to persue you for the unlikely chance they're going to gain any money from you?, I personally doubt it. It's a chance you take, but if you get burnt by it producing software to automate the process then on your head be it.
Right, to be less negative about what you're doing. I would personally create a system which allow people to code scraper scripts to achieve this. I know it'll extend your task a little, but it's a way to avoid legal issues wink

[Edited by qUE at 02:30, 15/1/2011]
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Martin Bazley Message #116222, posted by swirlythingy at 14:25, 15/1/2011, in reply to message #116216

Posts: 460
The composer has already released it! smile
Yes, I know. In MP3 format. Whereas what I have done is retrieve the original tracker files from the game, which is a much more rewarding pastime IMO. (Apart from anything else, they're not huge and they don't require a StrongARM to play.)

Also, I don't suppose you noticed that the zone 5 tracker was missing from that archive? I've got that one too. big grin
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Martin Bazley Message #116223, posted by swirlythingy at 14:41, 15/1/2011, in reply to message #116220

Posts: 460
I'm afraid it is, you've only got to look at a few EULAs that exist in the Windows market...
But why would I want to?

Also...
I would personally create a system which allow people to code scraper scripts to achieve this.
...eh? This may be some piece of techno-babble I'm not familiar with, but no matter which way I read it it appears to be a tautology.

I'm not distributing piracy software. In fact, good luck using my program to hack the Phaethon code itself, which was completely different and much, much nastier (as described above).

I've also been very careful to distribute software which can only be run on the user's own legal copies of the games concerned. I could have hosted a page full of ripped music, but I didn't for exactly these reasons. And none of it has any use beyond music conversion.

Perhaps you should direct your criticisms to Theo v/d Boogaert instead? (Except his website appears to be down.)
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Phil Mellor Message #116226, posted by monkeyson2 at 01:46, 16/1/2011, in reply to message #116222
monkeyson2Please don't let them make me be a monkey butler

Posts: 12380
Also, I don't suppose you noticed that the zone 5 tracker was missing from that archive? I've got that one too. big grin
Huzzah! I really liked that music. smile
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 
Dan Wilson Message #122866, posted by BrokenARM at 20:13, 28/11/2013, in reply to message #116223
Member
Posts: 13
Just stumbled across this old thread giggling to myself...

Wouldn't it have been easier to just ask me for the original modules?? smile

I wrote the music for !Phaethon in !Tracker. I was one of the first users of this editor on the Arc. There was a heck of a lot of music required for the game and from memory it was really quite an intense job.

I'm quite fond of that suite of music to this day - it turned out quite well.


[Edited by BrokenARM at 21:43, 28/11/2013]
  ^[ Log in to reply ]
 

The Icon Bar: Programming: How to write good code.