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The Icon Bar: Games: Atari ST emulator hatari 1.6.2 ported to ARMv7
 
  Atari ST emulator hatari 1.6.2 ported to ARMv7
  franck (09:41 13/10/2012)
  nunfetishist (10:40 13/10/2012)
    swirlythingy (12:56 13/10/2012)
      nunfetishist (13:06 13/10/2012)
        swirlythingy (15:42 13/10/2012)
          nunfetishist (17:44 13/10/2012)
  gaula92 (11:20 13/10/2012)
  SparkY (12:09 14/10/2012)
    nunfetishist (13:13 14/10/2012)
      franck (13:22 14/10/2012)
        SparkY (13:45 14/10/2012)
          grannyg (18:56 14/10/2012)
            arawnsley (13:29 15/10/2012)
              nunfetishist (14:23 15/10/2012)
      SparkY (13:44 14/10/2012)
  franck (18:28 15/10/2012)
    Tin Hat (00:23 16/10/2012)
      franck (15:55 16/10/2012)
      csynt (20:35 21/10/2012)
  franck (15:33 1/11/2012)
    gaula92 (17:07 1/11/2012)
      franck (17:59 1/11/2012)
      grannyg (19:32 1/11/2012)
        gaula92 (21:54 1/11/2012)
          grannyg (23:07 1/11/2012)
            gaula92 (15:33 2/11/2012)
              grannyg (15:58 2/11/2012)
 
Franck Martinaux Message #121210, posted by franck at 09:41, 13/10/2012
Member
Posts: 25
Hi,

I 've just released the port of hatari 1.6.2 for ARMv7-compatible hardware.
You can download it on www.norisc-nofun.co.uk/software.html

On a beagleboard XM, you can expect 100% of the speed of an atari ST.



Thanks,

Franck

[Edited by franck at 10:43, 13/10/2012]
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Rob Kendrick Message #121211, posted by nunfetishist at 10:40, 13/10/2012, in reply to message #121210
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 484
On a semi-unrelated note, I love the way FastDosBox is "exclusively available on PlingStore". This is amusing because the PlingStore's website is currently completely funted. (Internal server errors, the CGIs are doing something fruity.)

Can anybody explain to me what the PlingStore is for?
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Seņor Nueces Message #121213, posted by gaula92 at 11:20, 13/10/2012, in reply to message #121210
Member
Posts: 43
Hi Franck

Are your ports using SDL_PageFlip()?
If true, are your ports using a double-buffered display? Are you waiting for vsync to swap buffers in your "enhanced SDL" version?

Or, to ask it directly: do your ports exhibit tearing as any other (ugly) sdl port I've seen on Risc OS? I'd test them but I'm sure you can save me some time with a simple answer, please.

And yes, I know I need special screen modes to match the refresh rates of the games: that's a totally different problem.

thanks
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Martin Bazley Message #121214, posted by swirlythingy at 12:56, 13/10/2012, in reply to message #121211

Posts: 460
Can anybody explain to me what the PlingStore is for?
Based on what I saw at ROUGOL, two things:

1) A central download/update location for free software. It entirely duplicates PackMan in this regard (and PackMan is also supplied on the same disc image), making it confusing and useless.

2) An 'App Store'-like location for purchasing commercial RISC OS software for download. This feature would be rather more useful (and arguably overdue), were it currently at all functional.

[Edited by swirlythingy at 13:57, 13/10/2012]
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Rob Kendrick Message #121215, posted by nunfetishist at 13:06, 13/10/2012, in reply to message #121214
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 484
1) A central download/update location for free software. It entirely duplicates PackMan in this regard (and PackMan is also supplied on the same disc image), making it confusing and useless.
Let's hope they're respecting the licences of that free software, then.
2) An 'App Store'-like location for purchasing commercial RISC OS software for download. This feature would be rather more useful (and arguably overdue), were it currently at all functional.
I saw a screenshot of an application for this. What's wrong with just a website that you download zipped software from? Spellings already solved this problem. And unlike R-Comp, in a secure fashion.
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Martin Bazley Message #121217, posted by swirlythingy at 15:42, 13/10/2012, in reply to message #121215

Posts: 460
What's wrong with just a website that you download zipped software from?
Don't know. Ask a software packaging zealot.
Spellings already solved this problem. And unlike R-Comp, in a secure fashion.
Really? I've never heard of any similar product. Bear in mind that PlingStore isn't just a website, it's also a RISC OS application which provides a neat front-end, aimed at newbies (i.e. Raspberry Pi users) who are used to such things on other systems.

And to be fair, the free section (which I saw demonstrated) does have one major advantage over PackMan - it produces a save box and asks you where you want to install the self-contained application directory you have just downloaded, just like every other RISC OS program ever.
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Rob Kendrick Message #121218, posted by nunfetishist at 17:44, 13/10/2012, in reply to message #121217
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 484
pellings already solved this problem. And unlike R-Comp, in a secure fashion.
Really? I've never heard of any similar product. Bear in mind that PlingStore isn't just a website, it's also a RISC OS application which provides a neat front-end, aimed at newbies (i.e. Raspberry Pi users) who are used to such things on other systems.
Sure. They had a website. You visited it. You typed in your card details. You got a zip download.

Having a native app for this is... slightly astonishing. "App Store" things on other platforms are very new, so I don't buy people being confused by just downloading software from a website.

Do they include NetSurf in their free section, and if so, do they also allow you to download the source code to it and all of its GPL libraries? smile
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Gavin Message #121222, posted by SparkY at 12:09, 14/10/2012, in reply to message #121210
Danger! Danger! High Voltage!
Posts: 682
Hi,

I 've just released the port of hatari 1.6.2 for ARMv7-compatible hardware.
You can download it on www.norisc-nofun.co.uk/software.html

On a beagleboard XM, you can expect 100% of the speed of an atari ST.
Why is FastDosBox only available on the PingStore app? The app only works half the time and it's pretty redundant when we have Packman anyway. Can't we just download FastDosBox from your website?
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Rob Kendrick Message #121223, posted by nunfetishist at 13:13, 14/10/2012, in reply to message #121222
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 484
Why is FastDosBox only available on the PingStore app? The app only works half the time and it's pretty redundant when we have Packman anyway. Can't we just download FastDosBox from your website?
Where can you even download the app?
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Franck Martinaux Message #121224, posted by franck at 13:22, 14/10/2012, in reply to message #121223
Member
Posts: 25
Hi,

Fastdosbox still needs some polishing, mainly cosmetic packaging I am not happy with at the moment.
So it is not released yet, I just publish the performance results I got at the moment.
It will be few days of patience, I expect to release Fastdosbox for the end of this month.
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Gavin Message #121226, posted by SparkY at 13:44, 14/10/2012, in reply to message #121223
Danger! Danger! High Voltage!
Posts: 682
Why is FastDosBox only available on the PlingStore app? The app only works half the time and it's pretty redundant when we have Packman anyway. Can't we just download FastDosBox from your website?
Where can you even download the app?
No idea. It's in the RISC OS Raspberry Pi alpha distro but I'm not sure where you can download it. !PlingStore is an RComp app but I'm not sure if their website really changes from year to the next.

On a side note, I just tried !PingStore and for the second day in a row, it's doing nothing - it's attempting to fetch updates but it never seems to complete its task.

Edit: To be fair, I've just checked and the app is version 0.44 so maybe isn't actually supposed to be all that public yet.

Edit 2: http://www.riscository.com/2012/hatari-st-emulator-ported/#more-1536 suggests that !PingStore isn't really "out" yet which would explain why its functionality is up and down. Still, I'm not sure I like it when we have Packman - I guess the point is to sell R-Comp's commercial software but maybe it should stick to doing just that and let Packman do the rest?

[Edited by SparkY at 16:15, 14/10/2012]
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Gavin Message #121227, posted by SparkY at 13:45, 14/10/2012, in reply to message #121224
Danger! Danger! High Voltage!
Posts: 682
Hi,

Fastdosbox still needs some polishing, mainly cosmetic packaging I am not happy with at the moment.
So it is not released yet, I just publish the performance results I got at the moment.
It will be few days of patience, I expect to release Fastdosbox for the end of this month.
Sounds good - if you need someone to test it on a Pi, I'd be happy to help. I have the old !DosBox running but it's a little slow.

Edit: Erm, just noticed it's ARMv7 only so won't run on the Pi. Damn.

[Edited by SparkY at 16:03, 14/10/2012]
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Chris Gransden Message #121229, posted by grannyg at 18:56, 14/10/2012, in reply to message #121227
Member
Posts: 47


Erm, just noticed it's ARMv7 only so won't run on the Pi. Damn.

There is a version that runs on the Raspberry Pi. It's faster than the one on riscos.info.
You can download it from http://www.cgransden.co.uk/dosbox_0.74-1.zip

.
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Andrew Rawnsley Message #121231, posted by arawnsley at 13:29, 15/10/2012, in reply to message #121229
R-Comp chap
Posts: 465
The app has only been released for testing so far, for use by software developers and the like. Unfortunately we have had some server downtime starting (sod's law?) when our server admin went abroad for the weekend. As such, for the duration of this thread, it has been down.

The release version will (obviously) have fall-back methods to allow offline viewing and we're looking to ensure a second-level fall-back server, too. Indeed, much of this is present in the version that would download if the server were up!

Once it is back online, it should auto-update to a 0.90 public beta release, incidentally.

To be fair, this downtime is actually extremely helpful, as it forces us to ensure that all the fallbacks work correctly (I suspect right now they don't, so that's good testing). It is why most online services have beta periods to test loading and downtime. It is important to learn lessons prior to public release.

Indeed, I suspect that it might be wise for us to keep it down for a further 24 hours to test all the fall-backs and fail-safe code, and ensure that the version that is live when we go back up copes as well as possible.
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Rob Kendrick Message #121232, posted by nunfetishist at 14:23, 15/10/2012, in reply to message #121231
nunfetishist
Exposing morons since 1981

Posts: 484
Indeed, I suspect that it might be wise for us to keep it down for a further 24 hours to test all the fall-backs and fail-safe code, and ensure that the version that is live when we go back up copes as well as possible.
You can simulate it being down by simply inserting an appropriate routing rule, and not deprive others.
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Franck Martinaux Message #121234, posted by franck at 18:28, 15/10/2012, in reply to message #121210
Member
Posts: 25
Hi,

Someone got in touch with me to report me a bug on a Pandaboard ES.
For him, when he switches in full screen (using F11 key), the only thing he have is a black screen.
I tried to reproduce the issue on my beagle board in different resolution but everything works great.
Do anyone have the same issue than him ?

Thanks for your feedback,

Franck
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Patric Aristide Message #121241, posted by Tin Hat at 00:23, 16/10/2012, in reply to message #121234
Member
Posts: 56
I always had a similar problem with the original DosBox port on my BB-xM. Fine in windowed mode but on switching to full screen it just died silently. Thought itmight have something to do with incompatible ROL modules or something like that.
Sorry though, won't be able to do any testing untillater this year.
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Franck Martinaux Message #121244, posted by franck at 15:55, 16/10/2012, in reply to message #121241
Member
Posts: 25
Hi,

Just to let you know, he fixed the issue by disabling the Atari border
in the display settings accessible by the key F12.

Sincerely,

Franck - www.norisc-nofun.co.uk
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____ Message #121281, posted by csynt at 20:35, 21/10/2012, in reply to message #121241
Member
Posts: 6
I always had a similar problem with the original DosBox port on my BB-xM. Fine in windowed mode but on switching to full screen it just died silently. Thought itmight have something to do with incompatible ROL modules or something like that.
Sorry though, won't be able to do any testing untillater this year.
You can have fullscreen when you set the allignment Exceptions to OFF. (tested on PandaES)

[Edited by csynt at 21:36, 21/10/2012]
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Franck Martinaux Message #121375, posted by franck at 15:33, 1/11/2012, in reply to message #121210
Member
Posts: 25
Hi,

I have made a version for Raspberry Pi, it is downloadable now from www.norisc-nofun.co.uk/software.html

Only one known issue I have on my RPi is that it only works in fullscreen...
It could be relative to the version of firmware / riscos image I am using.

Enjoy,

Franck
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Seņor Nueces Message #121376, posted by gaula92 at 17:07, 1/11/2012, in reply to message #121375
Member
Posts: 43
Hi Franck.

I'm asking again, because I don't know if you didn't see my previous message or you just didn't want to answer. Risc OS community is a little...strange, compared to the warm Amiga community I'm used to, so, if you don't want to answer then at least say so smile

Well, here's my question:
-Does you SDL version implement proper double-buffered display so screen updating is smooth? (ie swaping buffers during vsync period).
Or, on the contrary, you don't pay any attention to these issues (tearing effects) on your ports?

I'm talking about Pandaboard ES here. Raspberry Pi Risc OS is lacking proper screen refresh control, I believe.
As you can see, it's a simple question. Thanks.

[Edited by gaula92 at 17:08, 1/11/2012]
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Franck Martinaux Message #121377, posted by franck at 17:59, 1/11/2012, in reply to message #121376
Member
Posts: 25
Hola Senor,

SDL does implement the double buffering but it is slow so it is not used in most of the port on RISC OS including for my ports.
This is something I am working on.
Of course, you are welcome to join the effort and help to fix the version of SDL.

On a lighter note I am coming from the Amiga scene and the RISC OS community is warmer to my opinion.
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Chris Gransden Message #121378, posted by grannyg at 19:32, 1/11/2012, in reply to message #121376
Member
Posts: 47


Well, here's my question:
-Does you SDL version implement proper double-buffered display so screen updating is smooth? (ie swaping buffers during vsync period).
Or, on the contrary, you don't pay any attention to these issues (tearing effects) on your ports?

I'm talking about Pandaboard ES here. Raspberry Pi Risc OS is lacking proper screen refresh control, I believe.
As you can see, it's a simple question. Thanks.

Double buffering seems to be deliberately disabled in Hatari by the Hatari maintainers due to 'it doesn't work with the partial screen updates done by the ST screen update code or the Hatari GUI'.

That would explain the excessive tearing in Hatari. Have you got any other examples of 'Ports' on RISC OS where there's tearing. I can then take a look.
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Seņor Nueces Message #121379, posted by gaula92 at 21:54, 1/11/2012, in reply to message #121378
Member
Posts: 43
-Scummvm (take a look at Ween scrolling intro sequence for a clear example)

-Doom

-Heretic

They all rely on libSDL, so I used to blame Risc OS implementation.
On Linux, I fixed tearing by adding my own backends (KMS/libDRM for the Pandaboard ES and dispmanx on the Rpi) with proper double buffering and well-timed waits until vsync, but I haven't coded a single Risc OS line yet. Well, it's the same C libSDL codebase I use in Linux, but I don't know how to build the code. Is it possible to run autoconf, configure and make on Risc OS? Are these tools available there?
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Chris Gransden Message #121380, posted by grannyg at 23:07, 1/11/2012, in reply to message #121379
Member
Posts: 47

-Scummvm (take a look at Ween scrolling intro sequence for a clear example)

-Heretic
Thanks. I'll take a look at these two. Are you aware of any ports that don't have any tearing?


They all rely on libSDL, so I used to blame Risc OS implementation.
On Linux, I fixed tearing by adding my own backends (KMS/libDRM for the Pandaboard ES and dispmanx on the Rpi) with proper double buffering and well-timed waits until vsync, but I haven't coded a single Risc OS line yet.
Unfortunately RISC OS doesn't have anything as sophisticated as these. The programs themselves would need changing. Which more often than not will probably be a quite a bit of work.


Well, it's the same C libSDL codebase I use in Linux, but I don't know how to build the code. Is it possible to run autoconf, configure and make on Risc OS? Are these tools available there?
Nearly all the ports using SDL are built with the GCCSDK autobuilder. You can find more information at http://www.riscos.info/index.php/Using_GCCSDK . Once you've got the autobuilder set up it's reasonably straight forward to port something over to RISC OS if it uses SDL.

[Edited by grannyg at 23:37, 1/11/2012]
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Seņor Nueces Message #121381, posted by gaula92 at 15:33, 2/11/2012, in reply to message #121380
Member
Posts: 43

Thanks. I'll take a look at these two. Are you aware of any ports that don't have any tearing?
Strangely, the Lemmings SDL port to Risc OS I saw some time ago was buggy but had a very nice looking tearless scroll smile



Unfortunately RISC OS doesn't have anything as sophisticated as these. The programs themselves would need changing. Which more often than not will probably be a quite a bit of work.

Well, nothing sophisticated is needed: only the ability to issue scanout buffer swap to happen during vsync (wich I am sure it has, because I've seen various non-sdl games with perfect tearless graphics on Risc OS on the Pandaboard: Twinworld, Starfighter 3000, etc).
If you know the system, maybe you can give me some hints. Otherwise, I'll look into it sooner or later: I've already fixed other backends. Can't be much different.

[Edited by gaula92 at 15:33, 2/11/2012]
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Chris Gransden Message #121382, posted by grannyg at 15:58, 2/11/2012, in reply to message #121381
Member
Posts: 47

Strangely, the Lemmings SDL port to Risc OS I saw some time ago was buggy but had a very nice looking tearless scroll
I just had a look and this has double buffering switched on. So it looks like the ports with the tearing aren't using double buffering for some reason.

I'm not certain but Hatari and hheretic seem to be drawing the screen in tiles so double buffering doesn't work. I tried turning it on but the screen goes blank.

I haven't tried scummvm yet but that has no double buffering too. So hopefully it's just a matter of enabling it. There's no mention in the code why it's switched off.

The SDL backend for RISC OS does the buffer swap and vsync itself. I'm not sure how you would fix the games that don't support it. I assume on other platforms you can manipulate the vsync externally.
What happens when the frame rate can't keep up with the vsync? A lot of the ports can't manage 60fps.

If you need help with anything feel free to ask.
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The Icon Bar: Games: Atari ST emulator hatari 1.6.2 ported to ARMv7